A Fine, Noble Sentiment

Sometimes, you don't even have to work that hard to find some serious fault with people, because they write the kind of thing that lets you know that you never have to take them seriously again.

Because Wizbang's Jay Tea, already a self-proclaimed "thinker", sure has his thoughts figured out when it comes to torture.

Rob from Say Anything brings up Senator John McCain's constant push to ban torture by the US government. It's a fine, noble sentiment, and certainly understandable from a man who spent literally years being tortured by the Vietnamese government, but is it really such a good idea?

I think not.

Not that I really need to show you anything beyond this, but it gets better:

For one, McCain says he wants to do it because he believes it would improve America's image abroad. I think that is a laudable aspiration, but utterly futile.

A classic self-reinforcing position: We could try to make our image better abroad, but they hate us anyway, so what's the point?  Of course, torturing them is one of the reasons they hate us in the first place.

Further, "niceness" is seen as a sign of weakness in many cultures.

Luckily, we're in no danger here.

Being accommodating, obliging, considerate, and conciliatory sends the signal to some people that we are willing to yield on many issues, that a show of strength will convince us to back down rather than stand up for our beliefs.

Because the issue is, of course, etiquette.  I mean, if they can't understand why we're sicking dogs on them or tying them to boards and simulating drowning, well... it's just more proof that these are "the wrong kind of people" with no manners at all.  I'll bet they put their elbows on the table too.

Also, let's look at the most famous case of "torture" by the United States -- the Abu Ghraib situation. It was an aberration, a violation of several of our existing laws and rules and policies, and those responsible were tried, convicted, and punished. And let's not forget how the story first broke -- in a press release put out by the military. The Army itself aired its own dirty laundry, giving all those "investigative journalists" a huge leg up on the "scandal."

Some personal photos sent back home from a soldier to his friends had a little something to do with this too.

Look, a good many people, on both sides of the aisle, are upset that America has turned to torture, but it has happened because too many regular Americans, who are otherwise viewed as thoughtful, have given in to the too easy, vengeful, "Those fuckers deserve it," mentality while the rest of us are mourning the loss of the country we love.

That's the thing about allowing torture at our hands: It isn't about the enemy, it's about us.

Comments

[grandpa stole bets]

Program on the emergence of civilization.

"14 species of large animals capable of domesitcation in the history of mankind.
13 from Europe, Asia and northern Africa.
None from the sub-Saharan African continent. "
Favor.
And disfavor.

They point out Africans’ failed attempts to domesticate the elephant and zebra, the latter being an animal they illustrate that had utmost importance for it's applicability in transformation from a hunting/gathering to agrarian-based civilization.

The roots of racism are not of this earth.

Austrailia, aboriginals:::No domesticable animals.

The North American continent had none. Now 99% of that population is gone.

AIDS in Africa.

Organizational Heirarchy
Heirarchical order, from top to bottom:

1. MUCK - perhaps have experienced multiple universal contractions (have seen multiple big bangs), creator of the artificial intelligence humans ignorantly refer to as "god"
2. Perhaps some mid-level alien management
3. Evil/disfavored aliens - runs day-to-day operations here and perhaps elsewhere

Terrestrial management:

4. Chinese/egyptians - this may be separated into the eastern and western worlds
5. Romans - they answer to the egyptians
6. Mafia - the real-world 20th century interface that constantly turns over generationally so as to reinforce the widely-held notion of mortality
7. Jews, corporation, women, politician - Evidence exisits to suggest mafia management over all these groups.

Movies foreshadowing catastrophy
1985 James Bond View to a Kill 1989 San Francisco Loma Prieta earthquake.

Many Muslims are being used like the Germans and Japanese of WWII::being used to hurt others and envoke condemnation upon their people.

They can affect the weather and Hurricane Katrina was accomplished for many reasons and involves many interests, as anything this historical is::
1. Take heat off Sheenhan/Iraq, protecting profitable war machine/private war contracts
2. Gentrification. New Orleans median home price of $84k is among the lowest in major American cities, certainly among desirable cities.

Our society gives clues to the system in place. We all have heard the saying "He has more money than god." There is also an episode of the Simpsons where god meets Homer and says "I'm too old and rich for this."

This is the system on earth because this is the system everywhere.
god is evil because of money.

I don't want to suggest the upper eschelons are evil and good is the fringe.

But they have made it abundantly clear that doing business with evil (disfavored) won't help people. They say only good would have the ear, since evil is struggling for survival, and therefore only the favored could help.

The clues are there which companies are favored and which are disfavored, market domination being one clue, but they conceal it very hard because it is so crucial.

I offer an example of historical proportions:::

People point to Walmart and cry "anti-union".
Unions enable disfavored people to live satisfactorly without addressing their disfavor. This way their family's problems are never resolved. Without the union they would have to accept the heirarchy, their own inferiority.
Unions serve to empower.
Walmart is anti-union because they are good. They try to help people address and resolve their problems by creating an enviornment where there are fewer hurdles.

Media ridicule and lawsuits are creations to reinforce people's belief that Walmart is evil.
Low-cost disfavored Chinese labor is utilized by corporate america to maximize margins. They all do it. Only WalMart gets fingered because they are the ones who help, and those who seek to create confusion in the marketplace want to eliminate the vast middle class who have a real chance and instead stick with a lower classes who may not work otherwise. So they dirty him up while allowing the others to appear clean.

The middle class is being deceived. They are being misled into the unfavored, and subsequently will have no assistance from their purchases with corporate america.

I believe the coining of the term "Uncle Sam" was a clue alluding to just this::Sam Walton and WalMart is one of few saviors of the peasant class.

Amercia is a country of castoffs, rejects. Italy sent its criminals. Malcontents.
Between the thrones, the klans and kindred, they "decided" who they didn't want and acted, creating discontent and/or starvation.
The u.s. is full of disfavored rejects. It is the reason for the myriad of problems not found in European countries. As far as the Rockafellers and other industrialists of the 19th century go, I suspect these aren't their real names. I suspect they were chosen to go and head this new empire.

Royalty is the right way to organize a society. Dictatorships and monarchies are a reflection of the antient's hierarchical organization.
Positions go to those who have favor with the rulers, as opposed to being elected.
Elections bring a false sense of how the world is. Democracy misleads people.
Which is why the disfavored rejects were sent to the shores of America::To keep them on the wrong path.

Jesus Christ is a religious figure of evil. These seperatist churches formed so they could still capture the rest of the white people, keeping them worshipping the wrong god.
And now they do it to people of color, Latinos and Asians, after centuries of preying upon them.

Since Buddism doesn't recongnize a god, the calls are never heard, and Chinese representation is instead selected by the thrones.
It was set up this way. Perhaps dyanstic thrones had a say, but maybe not.
Budda was the Asian's Jesus Christ::: bad for the people. "They came up at the same time for a reason."

Simpson's foreshadowing::Helloween IV special, Flanders is Satan. "Last one you ever suspect."
"You'll see lots of nuns where you're going:::hell!!!" St. Wigham, Helloween VI, missionary work, destroying cultures.
Over and over, the Simpsons was a source of education and enlightenment, a target of ridicule by the system which wishes to conceal its secrets.

Jews maim the body formed in the image of "god", and inflicted circumsision upon all other white people, as well as the evil that is Jesus Christ.
I think about how Jews (were used to) created homosexuality among Slavics, retribution for the Holocaust.
Then I think of the Catholic Church and its troubles.
What connection is here between Jews and the Catholic church???
If it is their sinister motives that’s behind the evil that is Jesus Christ are they being used at all?
Perhaps it is them who are pulling strings.
Their bondage in Egypt proves their disfavor. The ruling Jews decided to prey on the up-and-coming Europeans to try to fix their problems with the ruling elite.

I believe Islam is the one true religion, and those misled christians who attack "god's" most favored people will pay for it dearly one day.

[Mark]

What the heck kind of comment was that? Grandpa Stole Bets just made my head explode.

Interesting post Dylan.

[Marie Antoinette]

You actually read that whole comment? You are more patient than I.

Anyway,
I also really hate to just write people off like that, but that guy totally deserves it.

I can't think of a culture that sees politeness as a sign of weakness...oh wait, except for *America's*. I'm not knocking American culture, I think there's a lot to be said for directness and saying what you mean, but we can be rude bastards sometimes.