Stupid Retards and Gays

I was out to dinner with Chance last night (who I've talked about before... he's my oldest friend).  We were just sitting down when the waitress came up to ask us what we wanted to drink.  Our waitress was, I could tell, a lesbian (not trying to make myself out to be the mayor of West Hollywood or anything, but I could just tell... it was later confirmed, as I saw her kiss her girlfriend goodbye, later one).

Anyway, back to the moment at hand.  I hadn't even thought about it, and seeing as hemming and hawing over your drink choice is one of the cardinal sins of restaurant patronage, I told her that I would think about it for a few minutes, while she went and got Chance's drink.  Annoyed by my indecisiveness, Chance muttered at me, "Dude, you are so gay..."

I got kinda pissed at him.  It's not like I'm adverse to throwing around jokes like this (though, after last night, I'm re-evaluating that stance).  And I sat there and tried to explain why it was such a boneheaded move on his part.  His defense was that he was just joking.  I tried to explain that it was pretty insensitive to use "gay" in a derogatory fashion right in front of her.  He accused me of being overly P.C. liberal guy.

But we talked about it for a little bit.  He tried to bring up similar examples such as "If I were to call you "stupid" and we happened to be standing near someone who was actually stupid, I wouldn't necessarily feel the need to turn to him and say 'Oh... sorry.'"  He also mentioned the time that I, when at a Dallas Stars game with tickets we'd gotten from a friend's mom who worked for the ARC of Texas (Association for Retarded Citizens).  We were sitting in a section in which a lot of mentally handicapped people were also sitting is a result.  I'd had some beers, and then, one person decided to go to the luxury bar area of the American Airlines Center.  "I'll be back after the 3rd quarter," he said.  "It's called the 3rd period, you retard," I shouted at him.  I felt like such a douche.

My point to him was that he brought up two examples of words with negative connotations as synonymous with "gay" in the current example.  Unfortunately, there was something about me that night that made me less than articulate.  I wasn't getting my point across the way I normally am able to.

So, I told him I was going to blog about it, and let you guys tell him why it was an lame move.  He joked that I should put his email address on there, so he'd get a ton of responses  directly.  He wasn't serious, but I am, so here's his email address  Please comment here, because I want to see what you say to him, but you can email him too.

But before you do...Chance is a good guy, and he means well.  Please, let's keep the punches above the belt.

Comments

[Lauren]

Calling someone "gay" is poor language because it takes someone's inherent identity and turns it into an insult. If you're intelligent enough to come up with a semantic argument about the usage of a phrase, your intellignet enough to grab yourself a thesaurus.

And if you like throwing around the word "retard," come talk to my mom's special ed kids and you'll never say it again.

[Lauren]

But apparently I'm not intelligent enough to grammar-check for "your" and "you're." Maybe that makes me "gay."

[Amber]

I admit it, I say stuff is gay. But only around people who know me and thus know how incredibly NOT homophobic I am. I am the opposite of homophobic. I am very "yay gay!" When I say something is gay, it's always tinged with irony. Maybe that's lost on some people... maybe I'm the only one who finds it funny. Oh well, wouldn't be the first time.

[Lori]

This line of thought/dialogue is predicated on the assumption that saying someone or something is "gay" is an insult.

Four of my closest friends are gay and if I ever said something was "so gay" I would mean it as a compliment. I'm trying to think if I've ever used the phrase and I can't remember an instance. But I hear my gay friends say it to each other all the time. Probably the closest I've come is telling one of my straight male friends that he's such a great decorator the gay community might make him an honorary member. That was definitely meant as a compliment. But I'm still guilty, in this comment, of stereotyping, so it's still probably not very PC. Stereotypes can be annoying, even if they are positive. My Asian friend Su Chin gets annoyed at all the comments she gets about probably being good at math, but they annoy her much less than the ones about Korean barbecue (I would think the fact that she's not even Korean may contribute somewhat to her annoyance).

There's just no getting around the fact that applying labels to people is a problematic undertaking.

[Danielle]

One of my best friends, who happens to be a lesbian, uses the word "gay" CONSTANTLY. If I heard, say, Rick Santorum calling something "gay," I'd be pretty pissed off. But when we say "gay" it's totally different. I think the context in which the word is used, the company in which is is uttered, and the mouth from which it erupts has everything to do with how offensive the word can be.

Saying "retard," though...that's really gay.

[Dylan]

My "retard" slip-up was not one of my proudest moments.

I'm not homophobic at all (in fact, read here to see how that was one of the central issues in my conversion from fundie Christian to the proud young liberal you see before you today), but I'll joke around calling something or someone gay too (and I'll do it in front of gay people I know).

My point to Chance was that he said it in a derogatory fashion to me in front of someone who was gay that we didn't know. That was just rude. But he didn't see it that way.

[Lori]

Yep. Danielle said it perfectly:

"...the context in which the word is used, the company in which is is uttered, and the mouth from which it erupts has everything to do with how offensive the word can be."

That was the point I was trying to make in three paragraphs that she made in one sentence. And that's why you are right that it was, in fact, offensive when Chance said it.

I agree with everyone today. What's wrong with me?

[Dylan]

Alright, it's time to begin Operation "Figure out things we want Lori to do and then tell them to her because she's so damned agreeable" immediatly!

[Lori]

Sorry, your window of opportunity has already closed. I'm back to my grumpy, contrary self.

harrruuummmph.

[Pete]

This is one of those things people repeat "innocently" without realizing where it comes from; same with "that's girly," "that's retarded," "that's ghetto," and "don't be a pussy."
The one that isn't excusable in any "innocent" sense was when I worked in customer service hell and someone paying for a friend who apparently forgot her money jokingly said, "Oh I see you're Jewing out on me."

I used to just ignore it, but now even to strangers I'll lean over and say "You need to watch what you say because somebody's gonna get pissed."

[George]

Chance is correct in his accusation. You are being overly PC (and homophobic). Nothing wrong with using the word "gay" in front of homos.