A Helpful List for Jay Tea (who can't even look at his own website for the answers he seeks)

Jay Tea, over at Wizbang, has put up a fairly asinine post today.

I've aspired to be more of a "thinker" than a "linker." It's largely a matter of practicality for me; I don't have the sources to come up with great scoops, nor do I have the time to track down items and be the first to "break" them. What I can do is look at events and ruminate about them, take my time to properly ponder them, and then bloviate at my leisure.

But one thing I've noticed is that the right tends to dominate the "thinkers" category. There's the above-mentioned (and much missed) Steven Den Beste, Wretchard,  Austin Bay, Will Franklin, Bill Whittle, and the non-blogging Victor Davis Hansen, just to name a few.

But where are the thinkers of the left? Where are the serious essayists, the scholars, the contemplators who would provide balance to the sheer intellectual power of the above?

There options to reply with are, of course, myriad.  And I thought I'd give him a list.

Lets just start with some of the members of the left who were, I don't know, nominated for "Best Liberal Weblog of 2004" (a list put together by none other than Jay Tea's own blog, Wizbang).

John Aravosis at Americablog (though I'll admit that he may be a bit too activist for Jay Tea's taste)

Want the best essayist on the left, in my opinion? How about Matt Yglesias?

You don't know who David Neiwert is? Allow me to help.

How about economics?  Try Brad DeLong.

Me thinks you aren't trying hard enough to find...wait, how did you put it?  "...reasonable, logical, intelligent opinions that disagree with my own."  So desperate, in fact, that you couldn't be bothered to consult a list put together by your own website.

But let me help with some more.

There's Alley, who's the best essayist I read on the real issues facing women today.

Of course, there's Josh Marshall (but I'm sure you'll find something wrong with him...)

How about the second coming of Matt Yglesias, Ezra Klein?

I'm sure that Jay Tea will find something wrong with all of these excellent writers.  When he does, I challenge you all to remind him that he was the one that wanted real discussion and real discourse with people that disagree with him.  These people will disagree with him, for certain.

Something tells me that very fact will be what Jay Tea eventually finds to declare these people unacceptable.

UPDATE: I encourage you all to go over to Jay Tea's post and, civilly, give him examples of who you think might be worth his while to read.

Comments

[Jay Tea]

OK, if you're gonna challenge me to "find something wrong," I'll go ahead and do so.

Americablog: Based on the first page, he's a linker who posts "open threads" every third posting. One single posting was more than a couple of sentences of original material, and the flaws in that one (on the military) are legion. He may be a great blogger, but he's no "thinker."

Yglesias: another "linker." No essays on the main page.

Brad Delong: Potential. I'll have to give him a bit more attention.

Alleyrat: Hmm. Insteresting. I think I might have to bookmark that one.

Marshall: From the front page, another linker. No signs of analytical pieces.

Ezra Klein: A few longer pieces, might be the sort of thing I was looking for. Again, another bookmark.

So, I see one "maybe" and two "probables" on your list, out of seven -- for which I thank you.

But I still don't think you found a counterbalance to Den Beste (at his prime) or Wretchard.

J.

[Dylan]

Below is the email I wrote Jay Tea, in response to his comment.

----

After I wrote this post, I realized that the Yglesias link I gave you is his older one... he mostly writes at http://yglesias.tpmcafe.com/. I was on my way to change the link when I saw you'd already commented...

I'm gonna say this in a public way in the comments, too... but I doubt the genuinity of your declaration that you desperately want to find liberal writers who disagree with you, but do so in an intelligent way. It seems more likely that your post was designed to try to score cheap points to a mostly friendly audience... Might as well have been saying, "How 'bout them Cowboys," in a Dallas comedy club.

Jay Tea, I've mentioned many times on my blog that I read Wizbang regularly because of you. You one of the few conservative writers that I find, though I disagree with you very often, to at least be thoughtful in your analysis. Posts like yours today, however, are not well-reasoned. They are shallow attempts to over-simplify matters, and paint large swaths of people with one broad stroke for what appears to be self-aggrandizement and a desire to bask in moral superiority.

The fact is, I've never heard of most of the conservative writers you mentioned in your post. The fact that you've never heard of most of the people who I'd consider heavy-hitters on the left side of things is unsurprising. The blogosphere became severely partisan long before I showed up. It has become a venue by which both sides, both feeling slighted by every day news media, can hear things from people who agree with them. There is nothing inheirently wrong with that... it is what it is.

If I didn't think your writing was worth the time, I wouldn't snip at your heels as often as I do. But you are above what you posted today.

Dylan

[Jay Tea]

First, I don't consider myself a "conservative." I coined the phrase "militant moderate" to describe myself, and usually elaborate it with "libertarian and contrarian leanings."

Second, as far as I can tell, Den Beste and Wretchard are among the most cited figures for fierce analysis and amazingly profound thinking I see. And I discovered them precisely because they kept getting cited, over and over again. Will Franklin impressed me so much that I personally sponsored and pushed him for his recent guest-blogging sting at Wizbang, and I'm still immensely proud of htat.

Third, the piece was largely motivated by the "taxonomy" piece that the most prominent voices on the left fell all over themselves to quote and praise. It seemed utterly emblematic of the old cliche' about how "conservatives think, liberals feel." Just reading that piece made me want to go take a shower.

I appreciate you saying that you think I'm "better" than that piece, but I stand by it. My intention was to have people point me to some heavy thinkers on the left, and it seems to be working. It was never intended to score cheap points with the crowd -- I don't think I've ever written anything like that (well, apart from the occasional digs at Kennedy and Kerry, but you really can't count them), and I hope I never will.

I don't appreciate the tone of your piece -- it presumes a lack of sincerity, and seems a bit snotty -- but I'm looking past that, and looking at the writers you suggest. But the crux of my piece remains true: that listing and slamming of the conservative blogs was petty, juvenile, bigoted, racist, sexist, and out-and-out nauseating, and it speaks volumes how many liberals rejoiced in it.

J.

[Jay Tea]

One final point: if you've never heard of Wretchard or Den Beste, that's your loss -- just like my not having heard of some of those you cited has been mine. There's hardly a day that goes by that I don't go over to Den Beste's site in the hopes that his medical condition will have undergone some miraculous cure and allowed him to resume his postings, but it never has.

And to the detriment of us all, likely never will.

J.

[Dylan]

I hadn't even heard of the post you were referring to until your post. I found it to be funny (if a little lazy), but harmless... I'm surprised that you found it so "offensive." Frankly, there are worse insults in the comments to your post than there are in the taxonomy piece (except for "tits". Oh my God, he said "tits").

As to the tone of my post presuming a lack of sincerity, that's fine. If you are sincere in your desire to engage in discourse with the left side of the blogosphere, then great... But your post doesn't indicate that. You take one example of something you take offense to, and use it to try to paint the entire realm of lefty blogs without even trying to root out, on your own, the lefty blogs that are abundant with real and seasoned analysis (which is what you were upset with the taxonomy piece for doing in the first place).

[Jay Tea]

And that's why I asked for pointers. I figured daring people to "prove me wrong" would bring out the links in droves.

And it did.

But look at all the trackbacks and other praise that piece got. It wasn't the piece per se that got my ire, but how eagerly and completely it was embraced.

I've called out those on the right on occasion. I've ripped Pat Buchanan, Oliver North, and Rush Limbaugh quite thoroughly. I've also stood up for gay marriage and am (squishily) pro-choice. But I didn't see very many liberals rushing to condemn or distance themselves from that piece -- until non-leftists started pointing out just how wretched a piece of crap it is.

J.

[Jay Tea]

By the way, I owe you a debt of gratitude. You (along with a troll over at Wizbang) prompted me to read some of Den Beste's archives. Damn, the man was brilliant.

J.

[Dylan]

The thing is, Jay Tea, what's "wrong" with that piece? I mean... is it silly and stupid? Sure. But it's harmless. That some people laughed about it and wanted to point it out to others doesn't show a lack of thinking on the left.

To that end, a blogger doesn't have to be a "thinker" or a "linker" exclusively. It is possible to be both. One of the great things about blogging is that, just as often as you write things that are original and thoughtful, you can also point out what someone else has written and say "Damn, that's some good writing."

And, for the record, I've been praised by some conservative readers along the way for condemning the stupidity in my own party, too. We aren't all a monolith, just as you aren't.

So, just because I (or others who linked to it) didn't "condemn" a post that I think is stupid, but harmless doesn't make me a thoughtless sympathiser. I just would prefer to spend my time writing about things that are important to me (and, of course, engaging in stimulating exchanges like this one, with you).

And I will give you credit, Jay Tea. You've always been willing to engage, and I appreciate that. Although, I wish you'd commented on my response to your 2nd amendment post.

[Dylan]

Jay Tea,

I'm woefully remiss in not including James Wolcott.

[Jay Tea]

Dylan, I didn't specifically address your 2nd Amendment piece, but I did do a followup piece that covered some of the same territory -- a Wizbang commenter set me off on another angle that (sorry) I found much more fascinating: that the 2nd Amendment is treated uniquely under our laws.

We have all sorts of legal measures for those who carry the freedoms of the Bill Of Rights too far, but in every single case, those are remedial measures: they are punishments inflicted after the fact. The 2nd Amendment is the only one where the restrictions are imposed before one even gets a chance to exercise that right. Where it's become presumed that you have to have the government's permission before you can assert your rights.

So no, I didn't directly answer yours, but I gave the topic considerably more attention and thought, and I think I handled your concerns as best I could.

Also, I learned a long time ago that one of the best ways to look smart was to avoid talking as an expert about matters you don't grasp too well. It's pretty fundamental advice, but it's served me well. And I could think of one or two bloggers who could benefit from that. (No, I'm not talking about you.)

J.

[Dylan]

I wasn't begging for response... but thanks, for whatever it was you did.

Not sure why you threw in the last part, but oh well.

Nothing can get me down, today. You've already made me famous.

[alley rat]

wow, i feel like i'm eavesdropping on an argument.

thanks for recommending me...

i do think that "thinker/linker" distinction is unnecessary, and Jay Tea's claim that there aren't any amazing essayists on the left reminds me of the guys who say "where are all the women bloggers". As he says, it helps to not try to write too much on stuff you don't really know; it might also help not to assume that something doesn't exist if you don't know about it. It seems to me that thinking is a social act, anyway, and that if you aren't reading what other people are writing, your thinking will be impoverished for it. But then, it also seems that saying you can't find something is an excellent way to get people to recommend a bunch of stuff to you.....so maybe that's a good strategy, if you don't mind pissing people off.

[alley rat]

oh, just checked out the pandagon post. that's great!

[Ian Welsh]

Well, they blog with me, so it probably violates etiquette to suggest them, but perhaps you might wish to read Oldman and Stirling Newberry.

And if Billmon doesn't qualify, I don't know who does. Orcinus is also obvious, as in the Decembrist. I'll add that there are some very good diarists over at DKos, and that some of the political analysis that goes on in places like MyDD is also very good.

As for DenBeste. I don't read him regularly, but I have read him, and I didn't find the quality of his argumentation all that high. Wordy though.

Finally - there is not one political blogosphere in the US, there are two. Whether JT considers himself a centrist or not, his chosen authors tell us where he's situated, and it's not in the middle. That's not meant as an insult - it's an observation.

[Thersites]

Calling Den Beste "wordy" is a bit like salling a swamp "muddy."

[Lauren]

For the record, there are plenty of lefties who found the taxonomy racist and sexist. We criticize our own, Jay Tea.

[The Heretik]

I think I link, therefore I am. Or not.

Did I overthink that, or did I underlink this?

Should I link more and think less? Or link less and think more? What do other people think of my links? Must find cites for sites. Or must find sites for cites?

I think I link, therefore I am . . . . Oy.

[Dylan]

That's sheer genius. I'm posting this in it's entirety tomorrow (and it was left on my blog, so you can't fight me... bwaa haa haa)...