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Shakespeare's Sister

You're spot on. Impeachment isn't the goal of the BBA; it's always been a formal inquiry, which is likely the only way to discern that truth we all seek.

I was challenged the other day about supporting the troops, and I responded that part of my support for them is my passion in finding out why they were sent into harm's way. I respect them for the job they do, a job which they should only have to do as a last resort. This seems not to be the case in the Iraq War. We owe them the truth, and likely an apology.

Dylan

Thanks, Shakes... It just occurred to me that perhaps the reason the Conyer's hearings have been so effectively dismissed as faux-impeachment hearings is because some of us and some of those directly involved in the hearings viewed them as impeachment hearings as well.

Thanks for stopping by. I'm very interested to know what some others think about this.

PSoTD

I agree, pursuit of the truth is the goal, not any kind of partisan advantage. Well written.

Dylan

Thanks, PSoTD, and thanks for the link.

Charley

The Conyers "forum" was overtly and expressly for the purpose of determining whether there was sufficient evidence to warrant a resolution of inquiry into whether Bush misled the Congress and violated Federal law in order to launch the war on Iraq. If he did, those are most definitely impeachable offenses under the Constitution. We should not be shy about declaring that ridding the country of this deceitful liar and his gang of anti-democratic bullys is our goal. Was the right shy about trumping up bogus charges against Clinton so they could get rid of him? No. What do we gain by being namby-pamby here. This administration and their sycophants in the Congress and the media are destroying this nation and we need to stop them one way or another.

Dylan

Charley,

I understand the sentiment of your comment, but disagree with a couple of things.

First of all, as I said in my post, going after Bush in the same manner that Republicans went after Clinton doesn't make us better. I'm all for the Democratic party showing spine and fight, but I don't want us to forsake our principals to do it. One of the things that is so unappealing about the Republican Party right now is the scuzzy, corruptness of it. By stooping to their level, even if we win, we lose.

And I agree with you that there were many involved in the Conyers' hearing that viewed it as a way to get the impeachment ball rolling, I just think that is the wrong tact, and really contributed to the idea that this was a political witchhunt (and a badly organized, laughable attempt at that). We get nothing by being laughed at by the entire country.

But, as you say, if the hearings can prove what we know about the way Bush took us to war, then it will be undeniable proof of impeachable actions... But doing it for that goal is wrong. There is a higher goal.

Charley

Dylan, it seems to me that when Democrats fail to fight the Republicans tooth and nail, they ARE forsaking their principles. The Republican Party is scuzzy and corrupt because they are liars. They are saying one thing and doing another. They have become masters at labeling their efforts as just the opposite of what they intend: "saving" Social Security by destroying it, "Clear Skies" that increase pollution, education "reform" that undermines public education, "Healthy Forests" by cutting them down, etc.

The Democrats have actual principles that some of them are brave enough to state openly. The problem the party has is with those compromisers who want to avoid offending anyone and keep apologizing for doing what they ought to be doing. If they had the courage to actually be liberal and proud of it, they would have a chance against the fascists.

If you recall, the Republicans engaged in a political witchhunt against Clinton culminating in a laughable attempt at impeachment that most of the country thought was ridiculous, and look where they are now. There are innumerable reasons why it is imperative for the security of this nation that the Bush, Cheney and the neo-confascist cabal in Washington be removed as rapidly as possible. The higher goal is the security and integrity of the United States of America. If the Republicans were unabashed about using a blowjob to get rid of a President who was merely mediocre, Democrats should not be embarrassed about using war crimes to rid us of the worst President in American history.

Dylan

It's funny, Charley, because we agree in principal, just not completely in form.

I don't think you can make the argument that the Republicans being in power has a direct correlation to the fact that they brough impeachment proceedings against Clinton that people now feel was overwhelmingly ridiculous. The Republicans are in power because Bush squeaked (or stole his way) in in 2000, and then masterfully frightened the nation into staying with him in 2004, using 9/11.

But, showing spine and having fight is different from wallowing in the mud with pigs. We can do the heavy lifting and get sweaty without getting dirty. For me, it is less important to impeach Bush than it is to find out the truth about what happened in the build-up to the war in Iraq. As you say, if that ends up proving what we all think it will prove, impeachment will be inevitable, but if we go into it with that goal in mind, not only will we be perceived as opportunistic political witchhunters and sore losers, but the possibility exists that we might actually be opportunistic witchhunters and sore losers.

I think language like yours, Charley, even though I understand it, gives the Right all the ammunition they need to fight us. If we are so livid at this man that we can't see past our hatred to doing what is right, then any action we bring against the President is easily defensible.

Thanks for engaging in this, Charley. I think it is an important conversation to be having.

Charley

If harsh language on the part of Democrats (aka "liberals") "gives the Right all the ammunition they need to fight us", how come the daily gushers of harsh language from the Right doesn't seem to give Democrats enough ammunition to fight the Right? It's not the language either side uses, it's the spineless weakness on the left vs. the bullying on the right. Democrats are like a junior high geek trying to stop the schoolyard bully by being civil and trying to reason with him and find ways to compromise.

Sure Bush absolutely stole the 2000 election and most likely stole the 2004 election, and the Democratic Party, in both cases, turned the other cheek. The Republicans have been systematically disenfranchising minority voters and only a handful of Democrats have protested, only to be silenced by their own "leadership".

We have the ridiculous travesty of Democrats in Congress still pretending they can achieve compromises and do what's best for the nation by cooperating with the radical Republican right, in spite of the fact that every time they've tried it, the Republicans have screwed them. If it's not now time to take the gloves off, it never will be. We have a group in near full control of the Federal government that does not believe in democracy, does not believe in the Bill of Rights (except #2), does not tolerate dissent and has sent thousands of our soldiers to be maimed or killed in a senseless war sold to Congress by deliberate lies. The reason they oppose any investigation into the circumstances preceding the Iraq war is simple - they know they lied, they know they're guilty and they want to get away with it.

Tiptoeing about to avoid negative comments from the likes of Santorum, Limbaugh, and O'Rielly is a sign of weakness. Having the guts to tell it like it is and make the Administration defend their lies is far preferable to apologizing for telling the truth.

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